An Open Discussion on Global Warming Between People on Facebook

This is a Global Warming discussion that was brought about by a mutual friend who is very popular among the cities and is a popular person in the Twin Cities.

"global warming is a lie. anyone who still believes it should go stand outside in their swimsuits for 20 minutes to reconsider" -Jon

within a few moments there was about 4 comments on the his Facebook Status message. Already people were divided. Thus the beginning a meager debate that raise immense discussion.

I want to simply give you the full comments without any alterations. I've changed the names of the people other than myself (no real use hiding right?) and I would appreciate some input from others with well thought out answers if you choose to answer. (This will be passed along to friends and family as well as ALL of YOU)

Global Warming Discussion:

1st Comment: Jerry: Brr its Cold!

2nd Comment: Kammy: http://livinggreenbarrie.com/LvGnGlblWarmgIPCCRpt.pdf good article. many, many more when you do a google scholar search of "global warming and weather". juuuust a suggestion.

3rd Comment: Jon: Hey Kate. Try commenting on my statuses that DONT involve something political sometime. Manmade global warming is a hoax and a moneygrab.

4th Comment: Sheila:say that again when it is 90 in September.

5th Comment: Jon: Or 50 in July like it was last summer??

6th Comment: Kelsey: I remember that, brrr.

7th Comment: Tod: Global Warming, the hoax brought to you by the inventor of the internet.

8th Comment: Jill: I DO NOT want to see Al Gore standing outside in his swimsuit, even in the winter! YUCK! LOL!!

9th Comment: Michael: A-Men

10th Comment: Josh: Al Gore didn't invent the internet... but he DID make up global warming.. :)

11th Comment: Sherrie: I would consider global warming a blessing.Have you been outside?

12th Comment: Kammy: hmm. interesting, jon, i appreciate your statuses and don't feel a need to comment on any of them. I didn't attack you, I offered information on the subject that I think is persuasive. Attacking me for simply commenting doesn't prove your point. Believe what you want, but the weather outside on this one day in this particular area has nothing to do with global warming.

13th Comment: Brian (Me): Persuasive arguments that Global Warming is NOT real- http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php
- Our Scientific community doesn't agree with Global Warminghttp://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=462
- By the Way heres a petition to sign if you agreehttp://www.oism.org/pproject/
- Also CO2 naturally breaks down in our oceans eco system into limestone and has been doing this for as long as we know (These links I quickly Googled but you can find more information easily if you look)

14th Comment: Merriam: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/oct/11/climatechange Here, 9 factual errors made from the work Al Gore would like us to think he did. The truth is everyone has their own agendas; whether it be Al's desire to be loved by an easily swayed and poorly informed America, or the scientists who received global recognition and "grants". It's a hoax, if you don't believe that then you would get along with the people in the 80's who thought the next ice age was upon us

15th Comment: Bob: What about all of those deleted emails? I'm reading some of them now. People are so gullible, they'll believe what ever someone (like Al Gore) tells them. Kinda like chain mail.....And yeah Jon, I agree. Seriously concidering moving south sometime soon.

16th Comment: Brian(Me) yeah the e-mails were blown off by most of the media and almost overlooked now. Pretty crooked that they were not taken seriously when they spelled it out plain as day we are being lied to.

17th Comment: Kammy: Ok, this is the last thing I am going to post about this, because I'm pretty sure that nothing I say is going to change anyone's mind about this topic. First, Brian, you need to try to find scholarly articles with citations to these claims before you propose that they are infallible. Those are all really biased articles you have cited--they just aren't persuasive. Using the far right to try to disprove the far left is just not persuasive to someone--you need to find someone who doesn't have any skin in the game (i.e., an obvious agenda). Second, people need to stop associating global warming with Al Gore. It is quite possible that he did more harm to the topic than good, even though he did create massive discussion on the topic. Whether what he says is or isn't true is moot, because he is not a scientist or expert, but is in fact a politician! C'mon, I don't use Rush Limbaugh to judge all conservatives, because I know that not all conservatives listen to his mind melt. Likewise, I understand that Al Gore is politically divisive and generally not credible when having an actual discussion on this topic. Also, you need to critically evaluate the information presented in these articles. If you look at the qualifications required for the supposed "31000" scientists, 12,000 of those "scientists" only have a BS, since that is all that is required. (check out their website, that's what it says). In fact, over 10,000 have degrees in ENGINEERING, which really does not qualify them to analyze anything having to do with climate. I have a BS degree in Biochemistry/Molecular Biology, and I would NEVER think to consider myself qualified as a scientist to give a scientific opinion on global warming. You can't just take this information as given--critical analysis and thinking is REQUIRED!!

18th Comment:Bob: Kammy, it seems to me like you're the only one bringing politics into this. Yes, Al Gore is a politician, but we aren't referring to him as one. Just some dude that tried to change the world in his own way.....haha
So you're saying that an article isn't persuasive on this topic unless it's looked at from the people making money from the scam? Of course they're going to say GW is real.....

19th Comment: Kammy: What? You not talking about Al Gore as a politician some how makes him not one, or takes away his bias? Do you think that closing your eyes means that people can't see you, too? He is a politician, you ignoring that doesn't mean jack.
And, if you read what I wrote, you would see that I said that an article is credible if it is from scientists that do NOT have skin in the game. This expression means that it must come from qualified individuals (not someone with a Metallurgy degree from the University of Phoenix online) who are not profiting from the outcome. Ya know. Actual scientific studies.

20th Comment:Bob: Isn't that kinda what happened? The media caught on to the story? It doesn't take a scientist to discover fraud.....
Yes, Al Gore is a politician. I'm just not getting into that here. If we wanted to, I could go on and on about his political views, but that's not what this is about. It's about him doing all this crap by himself, not the fact that his political party backs him up.

21st Comment: Kammy: We aren't talking about his political views on anything else. His political background takes him out of the REAL discussion of the validity of the theory that global warming not only exists, but that human activity impacts it. To make a case that it doesn't exist, you need to present scientific studies from qualified individuals stating that this is not occurring. Pointing a finger at Al Gore doesn't do that, and making fun of him does it even less. His views on it are inconsequential, because he is not an expert, he is a politician. Therefore, you refuting HIS views is nothing but a waste of time, if you ACTUALLY want to discuss the truth of the issue. He is just a mild distraction for people who don't really care about the topic, and instead want to play partisan political games.

22nd Comment: Kammy: The destruction of our planet has serious impacts globally, even if individuals sitting in an industrialized country think that it doesn't. Whether you call it global warming or something else, people need to be aware of the consequences of our actions not only on future generations, but on the indigenous cultures of this world that rely primarily on agriculture and fisheries to survive. The impact of our actions on the climate have to be seriously addressed to prevent what we can, so that our needless destruction and overconsumption does not slowly kill off those across the world. This is a serious discussion that means that people have to look beyond their own bellybuttons, truly want to KNOW the effects of our destructive habits, and actually CARE about the effects our actions have on others.

23rd Comment: Bob: It's 3 degrees here. -4 with the wind.
Polar bears are still alive, because I haven't heard of thier extinction.
No news of coastal cities being swallowed up by rising ocean levels.
It was 50 degrees in mid July last year.
I are a scientist. :)

24th Comment: Brian(Me): The real deal is that Global warming has been about the politics since day one. The e-mails cited it that they were hiding the facts, The last 10 years on record have been only colder, The climate data that was released at the time of the e-mails has been sorted through by programmers and they have found faults and errors in what the these scientists were using for their climate numbers, as well as HOW ON EARTH COULD OUR GOVERNMENT GET US TO SPEND MORE MONEY WE DON"T HAVE. Oh threaten that if we don't invest in "Green" technologies we won't really have an earth to live on.

25th Comment: Bob: Well, as a christian, my view on it is this: God gave us this world to take care of it. Yeah, we've messed up a little, but He lets us be a "steward" of His creation. I think that there nothing we can do to destroy it, because otherwise the contradicts everything the religion is based on. Unless God is asleep.....

26th Comment: Brian(Me) Global Warming= Scapegoat for people looking to scold business. I'm a firm believer in finding renewable resources, recycling, petting forest creatures, and looking for alternatives for the problem of meat as our population grows etc... But CO2 emissions from humans into our atmosphere have not been linked to any significant warming of the surface of our planet alone. There has been climate changes through the passed 30-50-78-92 years etc... that people complained and predicted it to be unusually cold/warm. Now its a political statement to say "Boy it chilly out" When the scientific community deals with "Global Warming" Scientifically and allows the people blocked from publishing in the scientific journals you will have your Credible resources. Until then you are led by those who lie.

27th Comment: Kammy: First of all, day to day weather conditions in one place on Earth does not indicate climate change. Second, trying to improve upon the way we treat our earth is so that we can curb that devastating effects in the future--therefore, waiting until the destruction has full effect is...uhh.. TOO LATE. Third, simply because something has become political doesnt mean that it is about politics, and therefore we should assume it is not affecting anything or anyone. That is just ridiculous. Fourth, if you really care about government spending, you must REALLY be pissed about the trillions spent on war over the past 9 years. Fifth, Brent, your view on Christianity is the very reason why I am not a Christian--you are treating is as a label that entitles you to do whatever you want, whenever you want, because there is some god that is at the steering wheel anyway. Why don't you actually look at the effects of global warming on some of the most impoverished people on this planet, and then do as Jesus (who you claim to follow) would have done--HELPED PEOPLE, instead of standing idly by telling everyone that there ain't nothing you can do anyway, so why try? Hmm. It seems that YOU are a contradiction to your religion, and you appear to not understand the basic tenets of the teachings of the Christ you follow.

28th Comment: Diana: I have had this discussion so many times. I totally agree with you. Global Warming does NOT exist! Your status makes me happy...

29th Comment: Bob: haha, we just gave Jon reading material for the next week.....

30th Comment: Brian(Me): lol yeah :o) I might save this and put it in a Article I was thinking of writing.

31st Comment: Sammy: whoaaaa nelly! facebook fight!

32nd Comment: Kammy: Well, Brian, you just gave an entire post filled with conclusory statements created from ill conceived conlclusions. I cannot help you with your anger, and no one can, unless you do a little bit more research and discover that most of what you are angry about isn't true. 100 years of temperature recordings? Not true, and besides have a dailytemperature gauge is not necessary for determining climate. Scientists can look through a plethora of other information to determine climate trends all through history (analyzing glaciers, fossils, plants, etc). No wonder you are so skeptical, if you think that all science is inherently biased--it isn't. You just aren't looking at the right science.
I have discovered a trend in the complaints about taxes...that many, many people that complain about them don't actually pay much in taxes, and usually are those that benefit immensely from social programs supported by tax funds. Not only that, but your "statistic" on health care satisfaction is in itself such an incredibly small piece of the pie of this discussion that, standing alone, the statistic doesn't really mean anything. Oh, and also, social programs are designed to help out those less fortunate--ya know, poor people. The people that Jesus helped? Social programs are based upon the notion that we live in a society that will not allow the poor to be relegated to the margins of our society, and suffer while so many prosper in excess. Sort of like...who was that guy? Oh yeah. JESUS. If you want to get mad about stuff, GET MAD! That's great. But make sure you are getting mad about truth, not about stuff being fed to you by conspiracy theorists. Look up the information, double check it's validity. A website on the internet on its own is not fact. And, most importantly, you have to question it. I remember looking through those emails found last year, and yeah, super disappointing. But you have to put it in context, and you have to do additional research. You really need to look at what people are saying on the other side of things, because these emails have been taken and blown WAY out of the water. Do less biased research, or even look to the complete other side to see if the explanations have any merit. If not, then get pissed; if so, then you know. You say that people who acknowledge global warming are being sold--well, you also need to take a look in the mirror, because it looks like you are just as sold.

33rd Comment: Jon: I think the only person overtly talking about anger is you Kate. Dont live on fear, anger, or bitterness. We're all blessed to live here. Social programs are necessary, but shouldnt be required. I know you'll argue that too. Capitalism is what made our country great, i say we let it get back to work. Also, on a side note, you agree with a lot of Jesus' way of thinking. Why aren't you a Christian again? Cause of bad Christians? Ghandi said it pretty well regarding that...

34th Comment: Jerry: http://scarybulbs.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/how-many-dead-polar-bears.jpg

35th Comment: Jon : I attacked you?? By having an opposing viewpoint, or by stating that you never interact with me unless it is to jump on your soapbox of liberal left-wing anti-americanism? I have no problem with you bashing on Conservatism or Christians, but claiming evil?? Men are evil and fail, but I disagree if you think that is its overall tone and goals. Many, many good things are done in the name of Christianity, and I even dare to say they outweigh the bad. You're welcome to have your opinion, but it's disappointing to see someone as intelligent as you resort to spewing on my status and degrading me and my beliefs in order to do... Whatever. I respect you and your views just fine, it'd be an interesting thing to see you do the same. There is such a thing as healthy argumentation and debate, however rare that may be.

36th Comment: Kammy: You jumped on me for commenting, not with an opposing viewpoint. Anti-americanism? Is that a joke? I'm not degrading your beliefs, I am calling out the hypocrisy I think dominates these discussions--the complete disregard for the impact of your advocacy on the poor and less fortunate--which is completely antithetical to the teachings of the Christ you follow. And for someone who wants to have a "healthy" debate, you haven't contributed anything to the debate at hand. All you have done is crab at me about my "liberal left wing soapbox-ing." I have never disparaged anything you have said before, and I made a very civil comment to you about how there is substantial research done on global warming and weather patterns. Your response was nothing but accusatory and mean--not something that harbors healthy argument or debate.

37th Comment: Brian(Me): Yeah I'm not angry Kate. I listen to radio, Read Reddit, and I am known as a conservative. Have been for many years.

one of the biggest problems with watching glaciers or even solid deposits that are carbon dated etc... is that our planet changes. without knowing for sure how old the planet is and a true history that with new and upcoming technologies for dating, etc... may help reveal the data scientists will need to verify bones such as dinosaurs etc... look at children's books that are brand new and books that are only 5-10 years old. Science definitely has not found a solution for dating our earth and that is very evident.

If we need to be taking radical action and investing in green jobs and technologies then we better have a pretty valid and transparent perspective spelling out with a timeline and reasonable effects from specific sources of CO2 emissions from our United States factories and cars supporting (other nations welcome China...) the Global Warming Theory.

Instead of the scientific community doing what regular science people do and trying to disprove their theory and taking serious issue with and investigation into the holes that CO2 emissions by man are raising our temperatures.

I'm by no means against saving our planet. I think that there are pollution solutions that need to happen and that there has been plenty of amazing products and new designs that have come from this green push for the past decade plus.

My point is simple. Scientists should be able to make things simple. If there is truth in Global Warming. Release your weather data and allow the worlds best minds to reach a conclusion instead of holding the information and writing e-mails between one another trying to hide what thy really know is happening. If they didn't have anything to hide I may just believe what they say on their website and I may think twice about their calculations.

38th Comment: Bob: Kate, healthcare is already out there for people with tiny incomes. It's what I'm living on now.
The programs are alreaady there. There's a difference between making them easy to get, and holding people's hands so they never have to do any work themselves.

39th Comment:*** YOUR COMMENT HERE***

after hearing a discussion from Facebook What are your thoughts? Do you think I have valid points? Do you believe Kammy or Bob have valid points? Who do you agree most with? This issue is humongous here in the United States and WE NEED TO GET TO THE TRUTH WHOMEVER IS RIGHT.